One thing to remember is that what a character starts out as in the early stages of development is that they are often Very different from who they end up as in the final product. Case in point in Star Wars Originally Vader and Anakin were two completely different people but due to a number of character and plot reasons they didn't work as their own respective characters. Lucas combined them as it fixed all his problems from a narrative standpoint and made for a much better character. Also Han was origianlly a green skinned alien who was a general and old friend of Luke in the earlier drafts of Star Wars an we know how different he turned out in the final product.
Same thing here as given how much the two have in common with Sam my theory is that they mixed their respective stories and characters together. Both are Lara's main motivation for getting through the plot, both have a connection to the island Lara is on and both are or become very dear to Lara. Also keep in mind that Izumi, from what I could find, didn't have much in the way of personality but was important to the plot while Jess seemed to have more personality but had almost no reason to be in the plot.
This is why I think Both are the Prototype Sam as I am 99.99% certain that at some point the developers combined both characters as it was the best way to make the narrative work. So if it is alright with you I would like that part of Jess's and Sam's Trivia pages resorted if you don't mind.
How is Jessica similar to Sam? She wasn't in the Tomb Raider 2013, nor in Ascension concept. Jessica was part of the Tomb Raider: Underworld concept, so no connection to the island. Lara wasn't friends with Jessica either. Jessica was a niece of a man Lara's father knew. And Lara helped her out of selfish interest, since she was possessed by another Nordic artifact that was part of the set Lara needed.
My mistake then, everything I had found on the character kept saying that she was part of Ascension and given that she is someone Lara seeks to help, even if it was for selfish reasons, who is possessed I figured she was part of TRA. My mistake but I do still think that she might have inspired Sam at some point due to the possession plot.
Every series will often use unused ideas from previous installments of the series. The Asteroid Field in Empire was originally going to be in Hope but was scrapped for budgetary reasons. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if someone on the development team read concepts from other TR games to try to get an idea and decided to go with a variation of Jess's story.
This is now just a theory but one that does fit the facts but regardless I was going off a few articles I had read while looking up TRA which, at the time, were the only ones I could find. And they were in Spanish and I'm dyslexic as it is so, oops. But again, that's all I had to go on and it was hard enough just finding those articles.
If I can find them again I'll send them to you so you but I do apologize for going off facts that were, in fact, not factual. ^^'
Responding here because I can't respond on the comment of the original post. Say either scenario you proposed would be plausible but the latter himiko (choosing Lara as her host) it would probably be the more realistic scenario.
Why pick Lara for the possession instead of Sam though? I mean it seems to be implied in the game that she needs to possess someone who is "Native" to Yamatai and that since Sam was "Native" to Yamatai that means she would be the more logical choice. I'm not saying your idea is bad I'm just asking this from a In Universe point of view why would Himiko chose Lara over Sam?
I like the idea btw I'm just thinking about this both as a critic and a writer as I would like to see this explored in a What If story. :)
I don't know really I just thought it would be an interesting idea. Someone on discord said to me that Lara being the one Himiko wanted to Posess instead of Sam would have made for a more interesting plot than Sam being a boiler-plate stock damsel in distress (their words not mine). A writer would have to take some artistic liscense to make it work.
Well I love Sam so I'm against that idea but I will say that the idea of Himiko possessing Lara instead of Sam is a interesting one and I would like to see it but not at the cost of killing Sam off, I love her to much. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
A game like that could have some interesting mechanics. You could have two different gameplay modes, one more 'traditional tomb raider' and the other more 'supernatural tomb raider'. Like the interdimensional superpowers in Wolfenstein 2009.
On a side note, as I said in the comment I hope that Nadija is as good as the writers and Phillip Sevy are making her out to be and if so I hope she's in Shadow as the main antagonist.
P.S. Sorry for my obsession for wanting Sam back, I didn't intend to annoy you. I do agree that she is not needed for the series to be great and I will be fine, if somewhat annoyed, if she isn't in Shadow.
TBH I'm more worried about Shadow ending like the resent Far Cry 5 or Mass Effect 3 where it's not only bad but makes the whole journey rather pointless.
Is that supposed to be her? Because she's kinda derpy lookin'.
Don't apologise. I like Sam too and wouldn't mind seeing her back, and trust me you're far from the worst when it comes to vocalising your opinion. There have been people I've encountered who have done nothing and scream and stamp their feet about how Sam is the most important thing in the franchise, how her absense made Rise unplayable and that Lara has to be made into a gay icon, blah, blah, blah.
Personally I think the absense of romance in Tomb Raider sets it apart from series like the Mummy, Uncharted, Broken Sword, Secret of the Incas Indiana Jones and other adventure series. If Sam were to come back I wouldn't mind an implicit romance, but making it front and center would really be a disservice to the game in my opinion. Hell, why not bring Kaz back and make her Sam's love interest, I don't subscirbe to the notion that everyone needs a love interest, that's one of the reasons I love Horizon Zero Dawn so much, Aloy just takes all the flirting thrown at her from men and women in a pretty casual "That's flattering, but I'm not interested." kinda way.
I really don't think Shadow will be able to have that bad of an ending, Lara triumphant, evil defeated, perhaps a shot of her on a new advunture, clad with twin pistols. I'm pretty easily satisfied, and a game has to do something REALLY bad to make me retroactively hate the entire game.
The image of the woman you see now is not Nadija, it's actually a rendering the wife of artist Stjepan Sejic who has worked on Witchblade, Switched and WebComic series Sunstone. I just use it to show thanks as I think it's a rather cute image.
AS for the Lara and Sam relationship, I'll admit that I am a romantic and I get really exited whenever I see a good romance or the elements for a good romance. However, I also wouldn't mind if Lara and Sam's relationship remained ambiguous as to whether the two have romantic feelings for each other or not so long as Lara doesn't end up with Whatshisname from TTTI.
However, I do think that regardless of which direction Lara and Sam's relationship take I do think it should play a key role in Lara's journey and for one simple reason. I think Lara's relationship with her father has been over played and the series itself seems to be implying that Lara should put her father's ghost to rest and move on with her life.
I am tired of Lara effectivly living for her father and I think the end of her journey, or at least this part of her journey, should end with her finally making peace with Richard and moving forward. And that's were Sam and her relationship with Lara comes in. Sam is Lara's new family and the one she has the deepest connection to and to see Lara push her away in a attempt to keep her safe just doesn't sit well with me.
One of my biggest issues with Sam's constant parking is that it has never been her choice to leave Lara it has Always been something that was forced upon her. In issue two of Survivor's Crusade Jonah ended up leaving Lara as he could see that her obsession was going to get the better of her and gave Lara the chance to let go or break off their friendship.
This was, again in my opinion, very well handled and felt like a good exit for Jonah as it seemed to wrap up everything. Obviously that might not be the case as Jonah seems to be returning in Shadow, though what he's role in the game is still unknown so we'll have to wait and see if this is just a cameo or if this scene in the game is Jonah's final Final farewell but that is all besides the point.
If Sam was allowed to leave the way Jonah did, with it being her choice and not something that was force upon her, I think fans would have been a bit more okay with it. But instead it was something that was forced upon her likely because the writers did to good a job at fleshing Sam out and her leaving Lara of her own free will, especially after all the two have done for one another, wouldn't fit her character. It would be like Spoke and McCoy betraying Kirk, it just doesn't work with the characters.
I do hope that Sam does return and that she and Lara and able to mend their relationship and move forward in life, together.
And as for them ending up with anyone other then each other I really don't want that. Personally I would rather them remain with each other be it as love interest or platonic life long partners but in terms of either of them ending up with someone other then each other I just don't think that would really work. But that's just me. :)
The problem with the comics is that none of it really seems to matter. We already know Jonah is in Shadow so his exit is is completely superficial.
Hell, I liked the stuff in the first two Arcs regarding Alex, because there was some mystery to it. How did Lara get his watch? Was Alex really a ghost? Is he possibly still alive? Did Kaz go to him after the end of the Queen of Serpents Arc? Shadow could answer that, and make use of that foundation, and I do think it could be a good way to expand on Lara's team. Alex and Kaz as Lara's tech support, or say for instance Lara discovers that Alex is still alive and has been fighting Trinity behind the scences and when he eventually has a plan, he reaches out to help Lara. (Actually working on a story like this)
But I digress. Sam has definitely suffered a great deal and I'd like to see her get a better resolution, but I really don't want her as a co-op partner like so many people are demanding. Not that I don't think co-op can't work in Tomb Raider, Endurance Mode co-op and both spin offs are fun as hell. I just think that for what is her becomin what we know she's supposed to be, Lara should reman solitary, at least when she's doing shit. Sam probably will have some kind of mention in Shadow, Lara could arrive home to Croft Manor and Sam's just sitting on the couch waitin for her. Who knows.
I'm pretty sure Lara's doing Shadow's quest for herself. Like I said, the comics don't seem to matter much in the grand scheme of things, but the end of Rise pretty much states that Lara knows she cannot save her father and is instead doing it for herself. The problem is I really don't like the idea of Lara being actively looking for a fight. In all adventre media it always starts as a quest for knowledge, cash or whatever and then enemies follow suit and they have to fight. That's why I refuse to see the movie. Instead of Lara being a victim of a tragedy which changes her life, she seems to actively go out of her way to go into a situation which she knows is at best suicidally dangerous. Everything else I've heard about the movies also infuriates me, so as such I'm refusing to see it.
Also, I'm pretty sure you don't need to worry about Kennard Montez being Lara's squeeze, because if The Thousand Immortals is canon (duespite it's numeros continuity errors) he shot her. And he's possibly the book theif from Rise so that also means he's beat the crap out of her. I highly doubt Lara's into beng with a guy who tried to murder her (twice)
In regards to the last point, please remember that this is Hollywood we're talking about. Nine times out of Ten most writers think that if two people hate one another it must mean they secretly love each other regardless of what reality says.
Case in point the resent Kylo Ren and Rey relationship in Star Wars, with the film trying to take a relationship as borderline romantic despite the fact that both have not only tried to kill each other several times now but the later has directly killed one person close to Rey, Han, severely wounded Finn which resulted in him going into a coma and is indirectly responsible for the death of Luke who was her idle and mentor. All of which is thrown out the window the moment she sees him without his shirt on.
To the films credit they do go back to being enemies but it comes off like the film is trying to pass them off as Star Crossed Lovers. Apologize if you enjoyed The Last Jedi but it was the most resent example of Hollywood taking this trope and attempting to use it.
I'm not to worried about Whatshisname returning in Shadow as TTTI isn't all that popular in the first place, most fans don't even know about it and those who do insist on ignoring it. The Comics have been better received and I can think of several fans who enjoy as much as the games.
As for Lara's quest for taking down Trinity I do think her main motivation is her wanting revenge against Trinity for the murder of her father given all the set up so far. Konstantin and Ana revealing that Trinity ordered her father's death, the post credit scene implying that the mysterious voice is the one who ordered her father's death and that the two are going to confront one another in near future. The comics flat out stating that Lara is after Trinity for revenge for what they did to her father and to Sam.
In fact, ignoring plot points, the main theme of the comics post Rise has been greatly emphasizing Lara's connection to her friends and her father with it implying that she will have to give up one or the other in the end. Case in point, Lara lamenting what she would do without Jonah, Lara giving up her quest to hunt Trinity to save Sam and in Survivor's Crusade Jonah forcing Lara to choose between getting revenge or moving on with her life and choosing the former.
I actually wrote a review on issue 2 of SC and how well handled it was as we got to see both sides of the argument without the comic picking a side. While Jonah isn't a favorite of mine I did like how he was written here as it was nice to see him call Lara out on her obsession and how she's hurting herself by doing nothing but hunting for Trinity.
As for the comics being pointless, at this stage it's to early to tell as Jonah's bit in Shadow might just be a cameo and this scene is just meant to be his farewell in the series proper. But one thing from the comics I most defiantly want to see from the comics, besides Sam, is Leticia Cortez and her group Las Serpientes Que Caminan.
Cortez is, at the time of this writing, my favorite villain in the series as she is so much more complex then the other villains of the series. She's not one of the good guys but she does have a more noble side to her, showing respect for Lara even having the common sense not to underestimate her friends.
I also like the reason as to why she targeted Lara, it wasn't anything personal she just needed money for he group and she lot Lara had access to her father's fortune and tried to blackmail her. And when she found out that Lara didn't have the money she changed her strategy, figuring that she could ransom Sam and her parents would pay for her safe return.
I think we might see her and Las Serpientes Que Caminan in Shadow playing a similar role to the Remnant in Rise only being more antagonistic towards Lara at first but joining forces with her against Trinity. Given her connection to Lara's father and the fact that Lara has and Las Serpientes Que Caminan never hurt each other during the arc there's a foundation for the two to work with each other.
As for Alex returning on this one I'm not sure I want that. Not that I dislike him or anything it's just that the last time we saw him, he had a broken leg, was in the middle of a huge ship that blew up and then sank into the sea which. And as shown whenever Lara tries to dunk a butt the waves are unnaturally violent and filled with jagged rocks and Alex was a mile from the beach. If he was not dead when the ship blew up he wouldn't be around for much longer. With that said I do think that the ghost plot should be resolved and Kaz should also get some resolution given how long she was around.
As for Sam, I don't necessarily want her to be co-op partner in the game but I would like her to be given more to do, like her saving Lara at least one time. What I want most is to just see more of their relationship and that can be done by just having her and Lara talk over the radio like what we got from Lara and Nadia aka Sam 2.0. Just Sam over the radio providing Lara with helpful advice and a bit of humor as the series does need a bit more humor to help lighten up the rather somber tone.
I want to hear the two talk about their time at college when, or about their travels together before going to Yamatai and see or hear Lara and Sam being happy. These two desperately need a huge which the one thing I want most in Shadow, to see these two mend each other and themselves and move forward while also finally closing their wounds.
I hope I wasn't offensive in any way and if I was I apologize sincerely.
Okay very little time so I'll have to bullet point my response.
Not to be pedantic but gaming is not Hollywood. Gaming is a global enterprise that doesn't really use as many cliches as movies. Hell every romance in gaming that's worked was one that began and ended with respect and affection.
In Star Wars Rey and Kylo Ren at least had interaction before. As you said TTTI wasn't popular, so no one is gonna want Lara to end up with someone who just showed up in the last game.
Revenge is a perfectly good motivator, and honestly I never fault anyone for wanting it. Some of my favourite stories are about revenge, Mad Max, God of War, Inigo Montoya in the Princess Bride etc. And yes the guy who ordered the sniper to stand down is probably a head honcho at Trinity, and he's probably also the guy who threatened Taffe over the phone in Choice and Sacrafice.
If Jonah is put into Shadow just to say goodbye again, it completely contradicts the comics, and it would be a massive waste of Early Baylon.
Las Serpientes Que Caminan were perfectly servicable and Letecia Cortez was fine, but that's probably due in large part to how utterly boring the other villains before her were. Besides, they just don't strike me as Remnant material. Whereas the Remnants were a peopke guarding the secret of the valley, the LSQC are an armed militia who kidnap and ransome people. The Remnants were at least just defending themselves.
I don't think Alex necessarily should come back, but if he did survive it would be far from the most implausible thing to happen in the series, and it would make for a decent twist.
Sam is complicated. I don't really see how she could save Lara and it not be obsecenly contrived in it's exection or seem like a deus ex macina. As for Sam giving radio support, fine in theory, but it's not like Sam is gonna be particularly knowledgable about anything that would be particularly helpful to Lara in the field. As for their college days, I wouldn't mind seeing a flash back or maybe one moment of "Hey remember that time..." Also, unpopular opinion but I think Lara works a little better when she is broken, at least to an extent. Someone who is content and has everything in their life going for them probably wouldn't need to be risking their life every day of the week.
You weren't offenseve, and I don't offend easily anyway.
Personally I didn't much care for the film, I saw it but felt it was a rather week film and a poor adaptation of the game. Ignoring the fact that they removed Sam from the story and gave all of her contributions to Richard Croft they also gave all of Lara's contributions to Richard Croft.
She is no longer the one finds Yamatai as she is just following her father's notes, her reason for searching for Yamatai are now all about her just trying to find her father instead of her making her own mark and destroying Himiko is now something her father does while Lara just stops Himiko's thumb from getting off the island. Not to mention that Lara spends most of the film making things worse and is only ever useful when she finally does what she is told and is dumbed down for the sake of them plot.
Though that's just my opinion and if you enjoyed it more power to you. I am glad that Sam was at least mentioned and I'm still holding out hope that she will return. Thank you for catching me up to speed on everything.
I refuse to see it. I knew from how they were showing it that it was a terribe adaptation and refused to give it my money. In fact just to spite Warner Bros I went out of my way to watch The Asylum's Tomb Invader instead, at least the Asylum are honest about their blatant cashing in.
I actually didn't pay to go see the movie, I had a rain check when I left a movie early one time and whenever I get these or free movie tickets I make sure to only use them on movies I no I will not like so I can spend money on ones that are actually worth it.
If you're interested, just to further spite WB you could check out the fan film Tomb Raider: Legacy which is also a adaptation of A Survivor is Born and is actually pretty good. I mean I wouldn't call it amazing or anything but it gets the basic ideas across and while it does cut characters and plot points out it's a bit more understandable here as it's only 48 minutes long and for the most part it hits all of the major plot points.
Plus while it does remove Alex, Reyes, Jonah and Grim the film doesn't give Lara or Sam any of their contributions to the plot other then Sam telling Lara to give Whitman a chance as they have to stick together but that's about it.
Pretty much this is the TR movie we should have gotten and it's so annoying that we got a film that not only didn't get the source material but also ripped off the plot of Uncharted 1.
Yeah I heard. That any people were praising "Oh wow so unique and nothing Supernatural, sets it apart so much" which 1. I count a super infectious virus as supernatural. 2. Even if it's not Superntatural, it's stolen from Unharted. You want something in this vein with nothing supernatural. Uncharted 4. No monsters no mystical powers, no curses, no mummies, nothing. Just a a treasure hunt. God I hate these ill infromed "journalists" with no clue about what the fuck they're talking about...sorry rant over.
And that leads into the next issue with the film, Himiko goes from an almost Lovecraftian monster who sees humans as nothing at best and at worst tools to be used and then disposed of when or no further use. So not only did they down grade Lara and remove Sam but they also took a rather unique villain and turned her into a generic corpse that can turn people into Zombies.
And this film was praised for being super realist. I'm also baffled at how anyone could see this film as pro women as, like I said, Lara is made into a idiot who only makes the situation worse and is only useful when she is told what to do. Made Himiko into a plot device that was discarded the moment she was of no further use and gave all of Sam's and Lara contribution to a white guy who is seen as the real hero of the story.
In the games Lara is a tank and it takes a great deal of effort to get her to change direction, her motivations are clear and her character is well defined and relatable. Lara in this movie is a tool that gets tossed around with no say in the matter, has next to no character and what little that is established gets tossed to the side in the very next scene. Sam in the games and comics is a likewise a tank that also requires a great deal of effort to get her to change direction and like Lara has a fully fleshed out personality. Richard Croft in the movie is white guy with super smarts and is the only reason Lara is able to do anything right despite having no real personality.
I honestly like the first Angelita Jolie Tomb Raider movie as it is a really fun popcorn flick. And at the very list it has left a impact on people as it is still talked about to this day. But 2018 TR movie is already being forgotten as is the one thing worse then a bad movie, it's just kind of dull.
I've heard people mention all the complaints you've made. All though, i will say I don't think the issue is so much that they gave Lara and Sam's contributions to a white guy, because frankly I think the major issue is that Lara's contributions to anyone else. Everything Lara did should have been done by Lara, and anyone else doing them in a movie called Tomb Raider is just fucking baffling. I don't care if it was a black lesbian dwarf who took Lara's character arcs, I'd still be upset that Lara was turned into a complete plank of wood for someone else's benefit.
Which coincidentally, Lu Ren is one of my biggest issues. Some people have said he was there to make the movie more racially diverse, which is horseshit. He was nothing more than a Chinese guy for the sake of drawing in a Chinese audience, I know this, because he came at the expense of a pretty culturally diverse cast, who were all likable as fuck. Seriously when the secen about the clock hands leaked onine and they showed that Lara wasn't able to solve the puzzle as quick as some half drunk fisherman, I knew they were ruining Lara.
The thing of it is I would have been okay with a character taking 1 or two MINOR things from Lara as it's an adaptation so things have to be changed. In that fan film I mentioned before Sam does do one thing that was done by Lara which is her finding Mathias' journal which contains all the information Lara needs to figure out what the Solarii are trying to do.
But here's the thing, that's all she does, she finds the journal, picks it up and gives it to Lara. And the reason this was done was likely to give Sam a bit more to do but the film still has it were LARA is the one who figures it all out Sam just cut out the middle man to help get the film done in about 48 minutes.
In Legacy, Lara is still the one who figures out where Yamatai is, it's Sam who convinces her to trust herself and tell Whitman, it's still Lara who saves Sam from the Solarii. Still Lara who figures out who and what Himiko is and she is still the one who finishes Himiko off. The film didn't have Sam doing most or even half of the work because it was still mostly about Lara and knew the characters well enough to make good use out of both of them.
One thing Legacy did that was rather smart is that it cut to Sam and showed use some of the things she got up to while trapped with the Solarii. Again Lara is the driving force and the one who we focus on most but the fans making this film made the smart choice by giving Sam just enough screen time to focus on her development and relationship with Lara to get us to care about her.
In the 2018 film, despite being the real main character who has to clean up after Lara's mess we spend barely any time with Richard and yet the film has the gall to give him everything Lara and Sam did and then tells us we should care about him. Urge I HATE THIS FILM!!!
Thanks for letting me rant for a bit it has been a really bad couple of days which is not helped by the fact that I set up a Twitch account to ask questions about Shadow and the fate of Sam which I was unable to use due to life so that was wasted!
I hope Shadow is a good game on it's own and that TR 18 gets thrown into the wast bin of history where it belongs and fades from pop culture knowledge.
There's no point expecting Hollywood to not fuck with a game's story. To this day the most faithful adaptation from game to movie is Mortal Kombat, and the fact they've not improved in 23 years tells you all you need to know.
Well there's also the Pokemon series, Final Fantasy films not named The Spirits Within, Digmon and movies that tie directly into the movies and personally I find Pokemon 3 The Movie to be a rather underrated movie in it's own right and worth checking out.
In fact I do think that Video Games that are Adapted into TV shows usually work mainly because it can incorporate most of the major elements from the story. It also helps that games are made to be more episodic with each level having a more or less self contained story before moving on to the next part of the game.
I think this is one of the reasons that so many video games movies, even ones that are actually good, (few as they are) don't work as the film makers don't know how to translate something that is so against the usual film format as a film, normally, contains 3 to 5 acts that tell a complete story that flow into each other naturally.
However, one thing that always boggles the mind is how in so many cases, like 2018 TR film, how the film makers change things or add things that didn't need to be added or changed. The TR Legacy Fan film got pretty much every major element of the game in without needing to shoe horn in a character who wasn't there before.
I was refering to live action movies. Animated movies based on games have a better than average chance of at least being decent. But then again in animation it never really seems to be direct adaptations, more like bridging the gaps between games. See the CG Resident Evil movies for instance.